Xantia A/C

Post your Cit/Peu/Ren air conditioning queries or advice.

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KennyW
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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Admiral51,

I had a very similar problem with my fans on first Xantia. The first thing I found wrong was the relays socket had melted then discovered a broken wire.
Cloggs was a great help. I have a copy of some of the threads. This was prior to 2010. Worth checking this section further back.
I'll try and find the threads.

Kenny

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by admiral51 »

Hi Kenny
Yes everything i know is from those old threads which i grouped and linked to earlier in this thread.
I can confirm the relay sockets are clean and now have new 5 pin relays in all sockets.
Been hanging back on further investigating till easter weekend but looks like i am going to be 1 week off 1 week on from Monday 30th so now i have my multi meter time to start probing and i can pull the front of the car apart and not worry about re assembly for a few days

Colin

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by admiral51 »

Okay tomorrow is the day i start to delve deeper into my problem with my fans and A/C
I have re read all the old posts i have linked to and if anyone has any pinpoint info on the 5 amp fuse that powers the slow speed feed i would be most grateful.
Sods law states that when i start delving both fans will not show any life at all even though they have been proved to working recently :(

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Colin,

If your fans have been working both slow and fast speed, therefore the fans are fine. It would suggest they are not getting the supply correct to operate them. Worth checking the wiring leading to them for continuity.

I remember finding a break in the wiring to the fans and then finding the knackered relay holders when clean I bypassed the relays with jump wires I got the fans working at slow speed and fast speed.

Good luck, slow and methodical work will be rewarded.

I'll have a look at the wiring to remember what I did.

Kenny

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white exec
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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by white exec »

Ground the two wires in turn...
1550 should bring on low speed
1540 grounded as well should bring on high speed
...if all the relays are doing their stuff.
See the coloured-annotated circuits above.

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Colin,

Have you seen the below link:

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... fanop1.htm

Worth a look. Hope this helps.

Kenny.

PS You may have this already but this is helped me find the problem

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by admiral51 »

Thanks Kenny i have seen bits of it but not in the complete format, printed off for reference and fault finding.
Had to postpone till friday delving into the fault as work have put me on a higher level of call, come friday morning if no call i can get stuck in as i am off till Monday then :)

Just one other question, i understand the diagrams and the wires just not sure on the pin numbers on the relay sockets, the relays as they are all 5 pin do not have 1-5 on them, :(
Colin

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Colin,

I recall, on the back of the relay plastic sockets the numbers were printed. I think they were also on the relays. I think I still have some of the relays please let me check and I'll get back to you.

Kenny

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Okay, I found one of my burnt relays with the numbers printed on the back at the pins.

I will post a diagram trying to explain the back of the relay
IMG_1035.JPG
I hope this makes sense

Kenny

Can the photo be rotated 180 degrees please.
Last edited by myglaren on 01 Apr 2020, 20:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image rotated.

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by KennyW »

Colin,

Further to the Peugeot planet diagram, I have the following:

From what I do think, the sender switch has a permanent 12 Volts on pin 1.
Shorting pin 1 to pin 2 sends 12 V to one relay to operate the low speed on both fans.
Shorting pin 1 to both pins 2 & 3 energises all 3 relays to spin both fans at the high speed.

Hopefully this will help.

There is a load of info on the dual fan and A/C which is all related but does not necessarily operate together.

Kenny

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by xantia_v6 »

Kenny, I think that some of the information that you are posting is based on the earlier Xantia system which has a separate Bitron controller. Colin's car is a later HDI 110 which has the fans controlled directly by the engine ECU, and the wiring and functioning of the relays is different.

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white exec
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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by white exec »

Relay connections and pin numbers

The standard 12v 30/40A automotive 'cube' relays have the following connections.
This one has a mounting tab; others don't...
12v auto relay 5-pin.jpg
12v auto relay with diode, connections.jpg
12v auto relay with diode, connections.jpg (15.13 KiB) Viewed 24 times
A 'reverse' diode is often placed across the coil, to prevent a voltage spike (when the relay turns off) from damaging the ECU (or switch) that controls it.
If the diode is present in the relay - and you may as well assume it is, even if not marked on the case - then it is important to get the polarity of the supply to the coil correct. This would be 12v+ to pin 86, and Gnd to pin 85. (Get this the wrong way round, and the diode will cause a dead short, and probably blow itself.)

Pins 85, 86 - 12-14v coil
load:
Pin 30 is the Common connection, for this 5-pin 'changeover' relay
Pin 87 closes ('make') when the relay is powered
Pin 87a opens ('break') when the relay is powered

On the 4-pin version, pin 87a is absent (relay is make only)

This numbering is standard right across almost all cube and micro (smaller version) automotive relays, irrespective of manufacturer. The protection diode may, or may not, be present, but is usually marked on the case. If in doubt, open up to check.

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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by admiral51 »

I really appreciate all the help but as usual my explanations are somewhat iron age or earlier :)
i see the pin numbers on the relays, and as only centre pin has to be 5 pin, the issue i have is working out from the wiring diagrams what is pin 1/2/3/4/5 on each socket when the diagrams show pins 1-5 on the left (O/S) socket yet the numbers on the relays for middle and right (N/S) sockets.
Sorry old age has over taken me, i see but cannot compute lol
Colin

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white exec
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Re: Xantia A/C

Post by white exec »

Unless the cable colours (or numbers on them) match up with the wiring diagrams, you'll have to use a process of elimination:

- For a given relay socket, the opposite (parallel) sochets will be the relay coil (85, 86). With the relays unplugged, one of these two will connect to batt+, so you should be able to identify that one. The other one will be the connection to the ECU (which will Gnd it). That's two sockets accounted for.

- The 5-pin socket should be easily identified, because five of its receptacles will have cables connected.

- For the other two (three) contacts, again with the relays unplugged, use the circuit diagram and a test meter to work out which socket is which. Make a sketch as you go.

Colours/numbers of cables going to each socket receptacle might also help identify, when matched up with the circuit diagram.

Usually, faults with the triple-relay system boil down to
- dirty/oxidised relay base contacts, either the relay pin or the socket
- burned/dirty relay internal contacts (open up the relay, clean and test)
- burned/dirty fuses or fuse-holders.

Test the relay/fan(s) by Groundiing the control lines from the ECU, as described above.