it rains a lot here

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
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Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Some progress, silverline 23mm combo spanner shortened and used to hold exhaust camshaft whilst undoing the sprocket bolt.

Not able to make a spanner fit the oe flats on the cams but the flats further down the shaft have been used.

I am pretty sure the exhaust camshaft is not broken but i should really remove it to make 100% sure. The cam boxes and area are really dirty! and would benefit from a good clean. I will probably remove the cams after a successful engine start and run test and clean them.

No cracks on exhaust sprocket but i didnt glue the damper back on as it has "play", so did'nt want to glue it back on "out of round". The sprocket will allow the engine to run ( god i hope it bursts into life on sunday ) for testing and if successful i will get a new sprocket and cam belt.

The idler is a little slack but the tensioner is ok, so will probably renew the idler also.

The exhaust cam cover "breather" is full of crap and still being cleaned. Although the exhaust cam cover is a little bigger than the inlet and has the oil labarynth, the weight difference is quite remarkable, due no doubt to the crap that is in there.

I suspect the last owner poured oil over the engine rather than in it as oil stains in cam belt area, maybe power steering fluid?

It's had a good clean in that area.

Are the cyl head "plug tubes" easy to remove and refit or firmly pressed in please, anyone know??

Wish me/us luck for sunday, compression test ( hope it hasnt blown the head gasket or worse between 3 and 4 cylinders which is a possibility ) and start/run test. Fingers crossed.

ps some extra engine earths made and fitted as well as for ecu alloy and the mounting alloy plate, just in case.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Ok, sprocket and cam belt back on, cam belt difficult to re fit but its done and tensioned. I made some new cam and crank timing pins which helped, but still a struggle to get the cam belt onto the tensioner pulley. The new cam belt ( if the engine starts that is ) will get a little soap to help make it slide onto that pulley.

The spark plug "towers" are plastic and push into the "rubber" ? seal ( that doesnt ) in the head.

Exhaust cam cover now as clean as i can get it, all holes etc clear and no more "bits" of carbon and brown liquid come out of it.

very near the "engine start" stage, will report back.....

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

boy does it rain and getting worse !!!

The expensive obd diagnostics showed a faulty code of p1336, which was not on the hand held units data base ( i will be chasing them up for that ) but the lad found out ( and was mentioned on here, thank yopu so much ) as a cam/crank sensor mismatch.

I had to go down that route.

We found cam timing ok but the damped exhaust cam sprocket damper was un bonded, so had to remove it, which is when we found the corroded cam cover bolt etc.

The crank sensor was removed and bench tested which seemed to work, but renewed it as it was relatively in expensive, just in case.

I still have no test data on the hall effect cam sensor so renewed that also.

The wires for the sensors where all check for loss of connection, make and break contact etc. and found to be ok.

So, new sensors fitted, fault code cleared and try and start with clean plugs ( they where also tested and ok ) . It started but misfire on 3 and 4 cylinder just like before and fault code p1336 re appeared.

Compression where check just in case and found top be ok and even.

I ordered a coil pack ( which was tested and appeared to be working ) which arrived yesterday. It was fitted and fault code cleared and an engine start attempted.

=D> The Bitch runs on 4, hurrah!

I was told that a new coil pack could sort the problem but had to go down the obd suggested route, else why have it??

I phoned our local ( about 45 miles away ) citroen parts dealer this morning to ask about a new exhaust cam sprocket, timing belt and idler pulley.

I was told that the cam sprocket was "no longer available as the car was over 10 years old"............fm.

We are searching for a new exhaust cam sprocket as its damped for a reason.........

Is there a site that could do a "search" for this sprocket from citroen dealers please???

We are currently taking the carpets out to dry out and find a possible water leak into the car, the under screen water drains are clear.


so, if you have a misfing engine the same as this and the obd fault code is p1336, by all means check cam timing etc., but be prepared for a new coil pack. If the car is 10 years or older.........mmmmmmm

The mil light goes out and stays off until the next start up, and repeats, so that part is ok at least.

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 10197
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
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Re: it rains a lot here

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Does the Picasso have a sun roof? Years ago I had a BX with a sun roof. While the sun roof itself did not leak, one of the runoff pipes got blocked, and this meant the channel overflowed and caused water to flow in through a rear quarterlight speaker.

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GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
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Re: it rains a lot here

Post by GiveMeABreak »

OP doesn't have a sunroof James.

Check your door weather seals front and rear, but also check the headlining - especially near the aerial on the roof. These can leak in through there and run through the interior rear lighting panel or down the side of the head lining and gather.

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 10197
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 893

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

OK, just a thought.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: it rains a lot here

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, that was worth mentioning, as they do also leak on these.

RichardW
Forum Treasurer
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Re: it rains a lot here

Post by RichardW »

Try harder with the dealer... the sprocket is part number 0805J9 and is still listed - albeit at £105!! Or here's one on e-bay at £80

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Yeah, the lad is chasing one on ebay, new, in a foreign land. Schaffer is in contact and i hope they do a replacement. Gates dont list one and neither do dayco, the rubber star has a dayco logo and numbers on the damper metal ring, will chase them on monday as no e mail address on their website, great eh?

Thanks for the pointers on the water leak, no sun roof and no roof aerial, water seems worse on drivers side and seems to be coming down behind the brown coloured sound deadening/water absorbing foam, higher up than the pedals me thinks, so wipers off and plastic cover and have a really good look under there and under bonnet.

Will get chasing the water leak this afo and report back on that problem as well. Seats temp refitted without the carpets/false floor ( so much wasted space in this car, lots of room for batteries under the false floor, maybe that's Citroen thinking ahead? ) so can run the engine and heat the cars insides to dry out quicker.

Getting some candle sticks etc. for the "mantle piece" of a dash, and a rudder for the tail/stern.

Will try citroen uk for a citroen [part but i will not hold by breath.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Ok, exhaust cam sprocket coming from lithuania, cheaper than a citroen one but is a genuine pug/citroen part, made in italy.

I have come across this before on a dispatch, water making its UNDER the paint on the cabin floor and the sound deadening bitumastic and rotting the steel away nice and quietly, even under the seam sealer!

The water leak seems to be coming from above the pedals on the drivers side, and drains down to end up in the rear storage under floor area as the car is facing up hill at the moment. The felt and foam is brilliant at retaining water, the car was at idle and lovely and warm inside all yesterday, but the foam still has not dried completely.

I will be removing as much of the bilk head brown plastic covered foam to get to the leak point but the water may be coming thru the skuttle/bulkhead seams. The skuttle area and drain holes where clear but some muck as in there, no way near enough to cause a flood. It may be coming in thru the screen seal, god i hope not.

Will report back with findings and pictures.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Bulhead brown plastic foamed "sound deadening" was cut at about the level of the accelorator pedal to reveile a box section with staining, which is where the water is dribbling down the inner bulkhead and onto the floor etc..

But where is the water entering the box section?? may be under the plastic wheel liner, which is next to be removed for a looksee.

The foam is still wet after drying out inside the warm house.

pictures to follow.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

All foam now dry. I removed both sides of the inner wing plastics and found quite a bit of mud and debris so flushed that away.

The skuttle drains are more or less just above the 2 plastics push in fasteners, with a lot of dirt collecting in that area.

I suspect water was leaking past the plastic push in clip and making its way into the cabin area box section just below the throttle pedal, filling with water and overflowing out of the large diameter hole. When this had drained out the box section "empties" via the low point and drips/dribbles down soaking the foam in the process.

The engine was run again to heat the car insides and dry out the "seams" prior to painting.

Last night it rained a lot ( it tends to here ) and this morning dribbles where seen coming from below the skuttle lower seam that is spot welded to the bulhead, and may have collected on a ledge which seems to form an other under wing box section, the area where the plastic inner wing arch plastic clip fits into its hole. The hole was taped up ( both drivers and passengers sides ) so i dont thing it has got in that way.

I will have a real good look at the "shelf" area for holes and possible water entry points, and seal it for good measure.

Maybe the water is getting in higher up the skuttle area, thru the windscreen, thru the glued in 1/4 light window or even the roof to side member joint and the roof rack mounting???

I will also check the door area and door loom rubber and grommet.

Hopefully the exhaust cam sprocket will arrive today or tomorrow.

We are going to plum for a timing belt kit minus the water pump as the kit is only a few pounds more expensive than the single idler and timing belt, that is if the idler is available individually.

Pictures of the bad floor pan and seams will be taken today and posted tomorrow.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Ok, so to sum up, new crank and cam sensor fitted and wires checked etc.. no difference. New coil pack fitted and hurrah the bitch now runs on 4 cylinders.

Corroded cam cover bolt attended to and covers now off. New exhaust cam sprocket fitted and torqued. We decided to fit a new cam belt now rather than in the summer, and was cheaper and more sense to get a kit with belt, auto tensioner and idler pulley. The water pump was fine but the idler was a bit "rough".

All that was done and timed etc..

Fitted new aux drive belt kit as auto tensioner was very loose, wobbly and pulley noisy. Idler pulley was similar, which is where the "squeek" heard some time ago was coming from. It was also cheaper to get a kit with pullies and belt.

The kit was a "gates" one, in a sealed box. The auto tensioner came "loaded", held loaded via a pin, so i juts fitted the unit thinking gates are professional and the pin would come out when the unit was fitted. WRONG, the pin is toooooooooo long gates!!!!!!!!!!

So took it off, removed pin by unloading the unit, shorten the pin, reloaded and refitted. Bingo.

IMHO the drive belt that came with the kit seems a bit toooo short so will be asking gates about that.

Engine all buttoned up and ready to start.

Started straight away on run on 4 all good. Allowed to warm up and all good, althought there does seem a lot of "steam" from the exhaust. No coolant loss at all.

The engine ran without the air filter fitted and after some and after a 3k rpm run of a few mins ( to make coolant fan come on, it had done so before with old exhaust cam sprocket and belt ) to try and clear the steam, the mil light cam on with dash display engine fault, omg.

During the misfire and 3 mile drive home and after being parked, smoke was seen rising from under the car, the wet drive making steam, and the exhaust was seen to be yellow hot. It should have just burst into flames at that point but didnt.

Anyways we know that the cat and the 2 cat sensors may have been "cooked" at that point.

Fault code ( i cant remember the number but will ask the lad, a cat fault ) was seen and cleared and engine run up again, juts at idle this time.

The next day the car was test driven. The lad says the car seems much smoother and has more get up and go, and NO MIL LIGHT, thank you god.

Its yet to be seen if the mil light stays off.

The front exhaust seems very low and may be "bent", which is what i suspect, or its the manifold??

We will report back after say a week, as he is gunna use it for work.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

Well, all good until on the way home, a long hill out of town say 2 miles away and the mil light came on, will interrogate the ecu when he gets home. No loss of power so probably a well and truely cooked cat and/or sensors, unless of course it summut else/as well.

picassodad
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Oct 2018, 14:26
x 7

Re: it rains a lot here

Post by picassodad »

P1010024.JPG
I was slightly mis informed, the mil light came on on his way to work after about 8 miles going up an incline which is not that steep but fairly long.

Anyways I had the car back and the code was for a cat problem again, the same as the last time.

So i removed the tail exhaust box, it rattled. Thats corroded a lot in the 4 months its been on i thought.

I tipped out the corrosion and saw what i first thought was burnt wood, and on closer looking saw bits of the cat internals.

As suspected due to the misfire, fuel injection and glowing yellow hot cat, its been "roasted". A new one was got and the old one removed only to see a large ball of roasted cat internals.

New cat and sensors fitted, and the rest was re fitted. The rear of the middle section was a bit corroded and holed by the rubber hanger finger, so that was repaired.

Its due to be finally buttoned up this afternoon and road tested.

God i hope this is the end of this particular chapter of the saga, but i know there will be more to come.......

will report back with an aok we hope.

see picture of cat internals that has made its way into the rear box.

ah picture not tooo clear but see the pile of bits in the centre, should have taken picture on a white back ground. Will take a pic of the ball inside the cat later. If you zoom in the bits show the matrix structure and some well melted/fused bits.